20 Caves or 5 Levels?

[johnomg]

G'day All

After having played the Original BD Series and several of the BD Fan made Games (see my "BD Play List" in the Chat Forum) I have come to a conclusion.

I prefer the BD Games that have 20 Caves as opposed to 5 Levels (80 Caves).

To be more precise, I prefer playing Caves once and not 4 more times. While I understand that the difficulty increases as you progress up the Levels, you are playing the same basic Cave Layout 5 times in total.

I'm sure the Creators must spend time creating 60 more Caves, but are the Fans playing them??? Is the Creators time better spent stopping at 20 Caves (which everyone will probably play) and then creating a New Game with New Caves???

I have played all 5 Levels of the Original BD, I saw that as more of a "Rite of Passage" for a BD Fan. By Level 3 or there abouts it was becoming tedious, if it wasn't the "Original" then I probably wouldn't have bothered.

I'm not sure if I would go beyond Level 1 in a Fan made Game now, I know I would feel I hadn't completed the Game properly and done justice to the Creator .... but do I really want to re-play 60 Caves at a more difficult level??? .... for now the answer is probably a sad "No" because I'm spoilt for choice with all the Games (Caves) I haven't encountered yet.

Anyway, that's just my opinion and some feedback to the Creators from a BD Fan.

I will make a Poll and would be interested to hear the thoughts of other BD Fans/Creators as well.

Regards
John

(P.S. I updated my BD Play List)

Edit: Fixed a spelling error

[LogicDeLuxe]

I'm sure the Creators must spend time creating 60 more Caves

Should is the better word here.

if it wasn't the "Original" then I probably would't have bothered.

I'm not sure if I would go beyond Level 1 in a Fan made Game now, I know I would feel I hadn't completed the Game properly and done justice to the Creator

In the majority of cases, you really shouldn't bother, as most authors didn't either. Just like BD3, many are just unplayable at higher levels. They are just there because the engine was written that way.
There are exceptions to this, though since there are enough fanmade games for a lifetime, I still would rather go for the next game than playing the same basic layout 5 times.

[CWS]

I think you misunderstood something, johnomg.

There are 20 caves with 5 levels. This is right. But level 2 - 5 are made automatically by a random number generator. So levels 2 - 5 are not "made" by the creators. Sure - they COULD be made (different). But mostly they are automatically generated with some random data changed for that levels, mostly time and speed and the seed of boulders and diamonds.

Look at GDash - you will understand everything when you are working with this program.

So I'm still happier with 20 caves/5 levels than with 20 caves only. Higher levels are more challenging then lower ones as these levels are in the majority faster with less time.

So for me it makes no difference (in the means of amout of work) if I make 20 caves with 1 level only or 20 caves with 5 levels. I only test level 2 - 5 to see if they work. They are harder than level 1 but they look and feel the same way. So it's fun to play higher levels!

I pledge for 5 levels.

[LogicDeLuxe]

So for me it makes no difference (in the means of amout of work) if I make 20 caves with 1 level only or 20 caves with 5 levels.

This is true for the construction work, yes. But it's not for play testing, which is indeed about 5 times that much. And that is what many authors of BD1 engine games just didn't.
In my own BD1 games, I selected seeds which look sensible and also set time etc., but I admit that I didn't playtested every level.

I already came up with a solution to this problem in XDC. There, the author can freely choose how many levels the game should have. Anything from 1 to 7 levels is possible. Only catch: there is no editor supporting this yet. I probably will add a switch to force a certain number of levels in the compiler, so that the author don't have to worry about it.

[CWS]

So for me it makes no difference (in the means of amout of work) if I make 20 caves with 1 level only or 20 caves with 5 levels.

This is true for the construction work, yes. But it's not for play testing, which is indeed about 5 times that much. And that is what many authors of BD1 engine games just didn't.
In my own BD1 games, I selected seeds which look sensible and also set time etc., but I admit that I didn't playtested every level.

I already came up with a solution to this problem in XDC. There, the author can freely choose how many levels the game should have. Anything from 1 to 7 levels is possible. Only catch: there is no editor supporting this yet. I probably will add a switch to force a certain number of levels in the compiler, so that the author don't have to worry about it.

I test every level in my game(s) before releasing it!

[Dustin]

My vote is for 5 levels, generally. There are lots of exceptions, of course. First of all the early games where many authors did not test higher levels, in these cases it's senseless to try to finish these. Furthermore, there are lots of fan- made caves which do not really fit into the (classical) 5- level idea. For example, Logic's caves are mostly so detailed and precisely made that you would really play the exact same cave five times (no randseed which could be changed).
But in the classical games B1&2, I really like the five levels. In many caves the randseeds are chosen so that there occur extra challenges in higher levels Such as:
-Bd1, cave B/4&5: Fireflies walking through the whole level
K/3&4&5: Unlike in levels 1&2, you need firefly explosions in order to succeed.
O/4: difficult to get inside the funnel
Bd2 cave B/5: few diamonds so you need nearly all
C/5: many more fireflies blocking the way than in the other levels
G/4&5 fireflies blocking the way
M/4 quite difficult puzzle
P/5 difficult to find a way to the exit.

Other caves are made a lot harder by the diamond requirement.

I especially like the new possibilities Gdash offers to create five-level games with more variation between the levels. I used objects that are visible only in some levels a lot in RockFort. There are a lot of fully new challenges in the higher levels, and l1 is merely something like an introduction level and -I think- quite easy to finish. John, I promise you won't get bored if you try the higher levels also!

So my clear vote is for five levels!

[johnomg]

since there are enough fanmade games for a lifetime, I still would rather go for the next game than playing the same basic layout 5 times.

I feel the same, especially since I'm closer to the End of a lifetime rather than the Beginning

I think you misunderstood something, johnomg.

I misunderstand a lot, just ask the Wife

Thanks for the summary of how the Levels are made, I just assumed there was more work than that to create them, let alone test them.

My vote is for 5 levels, generally. There are lots of exceptions

I agree Dustin, there are always exceptions, even for my 20 Cave preference I'm sure. I knew Rock Fort 01 had added elements in the higher levels and I tried a couple of Caves, but my preference still lies with 20 Caves


The whole thing of 5 Levels or 20 Caves is a personal preference, with neither being Right or Wrong. I was just wondering how others felt and it's interesting to see the responses, pity there weren't more Votes though