Boulder Dash - The Lost Caves 4

schlonkel · Post by **schlonkel** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:16 pm

The follow-up of "The Lost Caves 3" has been released! Download it (.d64-File) under:
http://www.thelostcaves.de/02_tlcserie_ ... aves_4.d64

More infos (in german language) you find under:
http://www.thelostcaves.de/tlcserie_tlc_4.htm

There was a limited Jewelbox with an english instruction, you can download the instructions here:
http://www.thelostcaves.de/02_tlcserie_ ... 1_disk.rtf
http://www.thelostcaves.de/02_tlcserie_ ... 2_disk.rtf

Dont worry about the "loading instructions"

Have fun!

YouTube · Post by **Arno** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:52 am

Thanks, schlonkel. Nice release again!

schlonkel · Post by **schlonkel** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:48 pm

Now, the solution for every Cave is free for download. Click http://www.lust-auf-nostalgie.de/thelos ... .htm#caves and you will directed to the list of Caves. Under every Map you find the Solution (divX). That's it. Have fun!

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:14 pm

Is it just me, or are those caves incredibly hard?

I mean, it's one thing to look at a full map of each cave and try to think of some theoretical solution while obeying the known Boulder Dash rules, but it's 99.999% close to impossible to actually play and finish those caves on a real C64 - without access to complete level maps, being a human and no robot, and all.

What do you guys think?

schlonkel · Post by **schlonkel** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:23 pm

Yes and No. Some Caves of the serie(s) are more or less unsolveable if you haven't access to "cheats" like Cavemaps or similar. But, i create this TLC-Series with the intention to make some special... and to explore the boundaries of Boulder Dash. (technic, physic). And if you know the solution of some harder Caves in TLC 2/3 you will faster understand the Caves in the later TLC-Releases. And, yes, some Caves take me two weeks: 1 week to create, 1 week to solve

.

There are hundreds of selfmade Boulder Dash-Versions, so it isn't easy to make some special today. But, i want do some special. This is the result. And i can do a promise: "The Lost Caves 5" will be a little bit harder. But always with the original CharSet. /me explore... You know

All in all it is a product for collectors and Boulder Dash-Fanatics. Not more, not less.

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:26 pm

I think it's really cool that you keep creating more content for the C64, that you stick to your ideas, and that you actually finish your projects, complete with boxes and all. Thanks a lot!

schlonkel wrote:But always with the original CharSet.

Two thumbs up for always using the original CharSet!

schlonkel · Post by **schlonkel** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:24 pm

This is all i can do for the BD-Community

BTW: Boulder Dash in 4k ( http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=85175 ) - isnt' it really hard, too... in it's way?

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:25 pm

Well, it's hard because it is rather slow

I like 1k-mini-bdash even more so ( http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=66970 )

I'm thinking about coding another BD engine version (with original CharSet) for the C64 that supports really large caves (e.g. 500x40, or 100x100, or...), without getting too slow. Would you be interested in designing some caves for it?

LogicDeLuxe · Post by **LogicDeLuxe** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:36 pm

Simon wrote:I'm thinking about coding another BD engine version (with original CharSet) for the C64 that supports really large caves (e.g. 500x40, or 100x100, or...), without getting too slow.

The way BD works is sometimes close to the limits of the C64. I did a somewhat different approach in XDC, yet the overall performance is about the same. I don't think that you will be able to keep the original physics with much bigger caves. On the other hand, with 8x8 charsets instead of 16x16, you could save much raster time by simplifying the scroll routine a lot, making much bigger caves possible, but obviously, without the original charset.
I'm curious how you intend to solve this problem.

Too big isn't really useful either. Something like 60x40 is still reasonable, but not much more, imho. This is what Emerald Mines used (except for the C64 version), iIrc..
In The New Dash Dimension, sizes up to 160x160 are possible, which is overkill. Olaf Roth did some caves in this size. Try them, and judge for yourself.

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:30 pm

LogicDeLuxe wrote:The way BD works is sometimes close to the limits of the C64. I did a somewhat different approach in XDC, yet the overall performance is about the same.

Could you tell me more about that different approach? Or could you point me to a C64 executable that I could analyse myself?

LogicDeLuxe wrote:I don't think that you will be able to keep the original physics with much bigger caves. On the other hand, with 8x8 charsets instead of 16x16, you could save much raster time by simplifying the scroll routine a lot, making much bigger caves possible, but obviously, without the original charset.
I'm curious how you intend to solve this problem.

I intend to stick to the original physics and the original 16x16 graphics. I understand that you are curious

but I want to test my ideas somewhat further before I disclose too much.

LogicDeLuxe wrote: Too big isn't really useful either. Something like 60x40 is still reasonable, but not much more, imho. This is what Emerald Mines used (except for the C64 version), iIrc..
In The New Dash Dimension, sizes up to 160x160 are possible, which is overkill. Olaf Roth did some caves in this size. Try them, and judge for yourself.

That's a good point. Essentially, in BoulderDash you have to complete a cave alive, or you won't make any progress. If the cave is much larger than the normal 40x24, you have to survive that bigger cave to proceed. Of course it takes more time to complete a larger cave, and you also have more opportunities to die in a larger cave. Also, most caves are based on exploration, and it takes more time to explore a larger cave. Well, we will see...

LogicDeLuxe · Post by **LogicDeLuxe** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:39 am

Simon wrote:Could you tell me more about that different approach? Or could you point me to a C64 executable that I could analyse myself?

Well, this goes very off topic, thus I continue this in the XDC thread: http://www.boulderdash.nl/forum/viewtop ... =2946#2946